Parry Rules

[Deleted]

actually, glancing over the original Melee rules, i'd rather have something like this:

Reactions:

Dodge
The defender may view the attacker's hit roll before deciding to dodge. A defender may dodge thrown or missile attacks by passing 3/DX. If successful, the attacker must add an additional die to his hit roll and the defender moves into an unoccupied, adjacent space as part of the dodge. If no space is available, the defender cannot dodge. The dodger forfeits his next turn.

Defend
The defender may view the attacker's hit roll before deciding to defend. If the defender uses a weapon with which he is skilled, he may defend against melee attacks by passing 3/DX + weapon skill. If the defender passes the check, the melee attacker must add an additional die to his hit roll. If the defender uses a shield, he may defend against a melee, missile, or thrown attack by passing 3/DX + his shield's armor rating. If the defender passes the check, the attacker must add an additional die to his hit roll. The defender forfeits his next turn.

[jlv61560]

So I assume the attacker now has to re-roll his attack? Why not just require the defender/dodger to state up front he's defending or dodging? Then the attacker only has to roll once. This is not intended to disparage so much as it is to seek understanding of your reasoning. If I can find out why you're thinking the way you are, I can better understand why the rule is written the way it is.

Speaking in terms of reality, you don't actually get to watch the enemy's sword plunge into your side before deciding that it might be a good idea to dodge or defend. I've fenced competitively in the past, and while I don't pretend that gives me any insight into actual sword and shield type tactics or anything, I will note that traditionally, in a fencing match against an unknown opponent, you tend to play conservatively for a while, trying to get a feel for your opponent's skills, reactions, timing and strength. That doesn't mean you never attack, it just means you spend some time not really getting too excited about anything until you have a chance to observe the other guy. I suppose if both of the opponents declared defend/dodge options, it would make for a boring fight, but sooner or later one or the other will commit to something....

Id' also note that neither PCs nor NPCs will show up with a "my AdjDX is 14" placard on their armor, so the only real indication you might have (depending on what rules you're using) about who has a better DX is who gets to go first -- and even that may not be obvious if surprise is obtained by the enemy. So in the end, it's still pretty much a crap shoot in "real life."

So my solution would simply be that everyone secretly chooses an action (if the GM doesn't have something in mind for the NPC's he can always roll a die...) and then you simply play it the way the cards fall. But again, from the sound of it, you have spent a lot of time thinking about this, and I may just not grasp your underlying assumptions.

[araman]

If I understand Ewookie's post, I think that the attacker adds 1d6 to his previous attack roll. Therefore, if the attacker just barely made his attack roll, you could guarantee the his attack would be unsuccessful by successfully dodging or defending but you're giving up your next attack. If your opponent made his roll by 6 or more, you're hit no matter what. So don't waste your time. If his "to hit" roll was between 2 & 5, then you'd have to take your chances.

At least that's my understanding of his post.

[jlv61560]

Okay, but that still doesn't make any sense overall to me. Still seems to allow the defender to make a judgement based on after-the-fact knowledge as opposed to trying to work a strategy within the context of the game. Again, I may just not be seeing what he's really getting at here, though, so maybe I'm just not seeing the main advantage here.

[araman]

It seems to give a slight edge to the defender or player. It seems like it's a GM or house game tweak.

I haven't tried those rules so I don't know if they affect game play or game balance.

[platimus]

Jeff,
Araman was correct. The attacker would simply add 1d6 to his previous attack roll. Yes, the defender would see the attacker's to-hit roll and get to decide whether to Dodge or Defend. This is how Dodge works now.

However, my thoughts and attitudes about a lot things have changed since Feb 15th 2013! If you are interested, I will post my current rules for Parry and Shield Block.

[wolfsbane]

I'm thinking of a small tweet to the rule-as-written ... the Defender's Dodge roll is 3/DX if he has a shield, staff, gladiator net, or non-dagger Blade - otherwise 4/DX

[jlv61560]

Okay, I get what you're thinking, but doesn't that really simply mix "Dodge" and "Defend?" If I'm dodging, it doesn't really matter what I'm holding -- indeed some of those things might actually slow me down! But if I'm defending, then sure, I should get a bonus for having something I can actually use to defend in my hands...

[wolfsbane]

True, and my apologies for a lack of clarity - I'm thinking about just the one original rule with my tweak, not so much your two options idea. Though I'd think it was easier in any circumstance to retreat when one has something in hand to slow/complicate/block the enemy attack.

[platimus]

Feb 16, 2017 2:32:12 GMT -5 wolfsbane said:

True, and my apologies for a lack of clarity - I'm thinking about just the one original rule with my tweak, not so much your two options idea. Though I'd think it was easier in any circumstance to retreat when one has something in hand to slow/complicate/block the enemy attack.

I agree with thought process here. Very logical. I think some confusion here stems from the fact that the rule (as written) is really a "Retreat" and not really a "Dodge" - because you have to move AWAY from the attacker. You can't just "side-step" the attack (at least not officially; I do, however, allow the "side-stepping")

The problem with trying to include a Parry into such a rules-light/simple system and short (8 page) document is that Parry opens up a big can of worms. What can be used to parry and what can be parried? Can a dagger be used to parry a battle-ax? a maul? a club? a sword? what if a giant is wielding that sword?

I've pretty much scrapped every Parry idea I've ever had. Now that you guys have me thinking about it again, I think the original "Defend" idea of this thread is really the best approach if one were to add a parry-type reaction...but I think it still needs some tweaking.

Defend
The defender may view the attacker's hit roll before deciding to defend. If the defender has a weapon or shield, he may defend against a striking attack from a foe of similar size or strength by passing 4/DX. Skill with the weapon or shield used may be applied to the check. If the defender passes the check, damage from the defended attack is halved.

I don't know. Something like that. Maybe.

[platimus]

Parry (reaction)
The defender may view the attacker's hit roll before deciding to parry a striking attack. A defender may parry by passing 4/DX if the attacker's ST is less than 6 points greater than the defenders. If successful, the parry stops 6 points of damage and the defender forfeits his next turn.

Optional Rules for Critical Success/Failure
Success
Roll
Result
4 - attacker's weapon breaks
5 - attacker drops weapon

Failure
Roll
Result
18-21 - defender drops weapon
22-24 - defender's weapon breaks

[platimus]

Shield Block (reaction)
A defender performs a shield-block by passing 4/DX. If successful, the shield stop an additional 6 points of damage and the defender forfeits movement on his next turn.

Critical Success
4-5 - shield stops an additional 9 points of damage

Critical Failure
17 - shield is dropped
18+ - shield's armor rating/size is downgraded

[platimus]

OK. I'm trashing the previous versions of Shield Block and Parry. There can be only one! (and in the darkness bind them...)

Parry (reaction) (Rulez!)
A defender may parry a striking attack by passing 4/DX if the following conditions are met: (1) The attacker's ST is no more than 8 greater than the defender's. (2) The defender has a weapon or shield in one hand. The defender may see an attacker's to-hit roll but not the damage roll before deciding to parry. If successful, the damage inflicted upon the defender is reduced by 6 points. If this results in the defender taking no damage, the defender may also attempt a counterattack if he has a weapon in his other hand.

No shield block other than ^this. The only thing left for a "shield block" to do would be to block missiles. Normal shield protection applies in that situation and in the parry situation.

[platimus]

Another tweak...

(Using official Dodge rule)

Parry (reaction)
A defender may parry a striking attack by passing 4/DX if he has a weapon or shield in one hand. The defender may see an attacker's to-hit roll but not the damage roll before deciding to parry. If successful, the damage inflicted upon the defender is reduced by 6 points.

Dodge and Parry Critical Success: Defender may also Counterattack.
Dodge and Parry Critical Failure: Attacker adds one die to his damage.