SPELL: Assist

[Deleted]

is Assist 'stackable'?

i'm fairly certain by the way it's written that a mage can't spend 3 Fatigue at once and suddenly get +3 bonus to a stat, but...

can he cast it each turn for 3 consecutive turns and wind up with a +3?

[mister frau blucher]

You are right on both assumptions, ewookie. Can't spend 3 FT and get an instant +3, but you can with 3 consecutive castings. keep in mind it only lasts one encounter, though - but there are certainly some encounters where +3 DX would be beneficial!

Bret

[klingor]

Hi guys,
I disagree with this interpretation. Referring back to my post 'When does an encounter start' and using the time scales I'm thinking of, an encounter lasts 15 mins, a turn takes 15 seconds (or thereabouts).
A one-point limit on an Assist spell in a combat turn is reasonable, but before that, it should be up to the players how much Fat is put into Assists in pre-encounter preparation.
Cheers
Colin

[Deleted]

that's a good point. however, i know from other contentious posts that bret and george tend to think of each numbered paragraph as an encounter. i only consider a paragraph to be an encounter if there is something in it that is an immediate threat like a monster or a trap or a big boulder rolling toward me indiana jones style. i have never even considered buffing up before moving to the next room.
it seems reasonable to me (at the moment ) but then it begs for spells to have a specified duration. in the system i was making up before i found LAW, i was also trying to skirt around the complexities of spell duration rules. i also made a spells effect only last as long as you were in the room where it was cast (or until noon, dusk, midnight, or dawn...fuzzy time...or until it was broken by a successful 'save' type roll)
colin, obviously you like to keep track of things in terms of time. i hate it. i have a hard enough time keeping track of everything else. perhaps i will look at this way: a spell lasts until the next 'end of encounter' (EOE...kinda like EOF ('end of file' markers in digital files).)
in the end, it's _our_ game and we can play it the way we want. that is the beauty of these types of games over video games...you can easily 'hack' or 'mod' them to your own wishes.

however, my original question assumed the following context: mage is already in an encounter. it wasn't stated but that was what i meant and bret accurately assumed that was the context of my question. it sounds like we all agree that Assist would not be 'instantly' stackable when one is already engaged in combat.

now, i'm hoping bret and george don't revise the rules in such a manner that we can't reasonably dodge the 'cheating' bullet...like 'Assist...IQ...FAT...blah, blah; effects are not cumulative. LOL that's what my old GMs would have done...if i insisted on being able to do something that wasn't expressly forbidden but they didn't like, they would take away something else that made what i wanted to do impossible LOL

crap...thinking about deleting that last paragraph

[Deleted]

Aug 29, 2012 20:42:30 GMT -5 @ewookie said:

now, i'm hoping bret and george don't revise the rules in such a manner that we can't reasonably dodge the 'cheating' bullet...like 'Assist...IQ...FAT...blah, blah; effects are not cumulative. LOL that's what my old GMs would have done...if i insisted on being able to do something that wasn't expressly forbidden but they didn't like, they would take away something else that made what i wanted to do impossible LOL

crap...thinking about deleting that last paragraph

OMG! Bret and George are psychic! They anticipated this conundrum and have already prevented the effects of Assist from being cumulative!

MAGIC
Dynamic and Static Spells
Dynamic spells are single-use; static spells remain in play for the duration of the encounter. Static spells cannot be stacked--casting the same spell on a target yields no additional effect.

Assist is a static spell. The quote comes from a copy of the rules I downloaded 2 months ago.

Colin! We're screwed!

[Deleted]

this reminds me. i think the meaning of Dynamic would be instantly and tremendously clearer if described as follows:

Dynamic spells expire instantly; static spells remain in play for the duration of the encounter.

[mister frau blucher]

Sept 4, 2012 21:17:26 GMT -5 @ewookie said:

Aug 29, 2012 20:42:30 GMT -5 @ewookie said:

now, i'm hoping bret and george don't revise the rules in such a manner that we can't reasonably dodge the 'cheating' bullet...like 'Assist...IQ...FAT...blah, blah; effects are not cumulative. LOL that's what my old GMs would have done...if i insisted on being able to do something that wasn't expressly forbidden but they didn't like, they would take away something else that made what i wanted to do impossible LOL

crap...thinking about deleting that last paragraph

OMG! Bret and George are psychic! They anticipated this conundrum and have already prevented the effects of Assist from being cumulative!

MAGIC
Dynamic and Static Spells
Dynamic spells are single-use; static spells remain in play for the duration of the encounter. Static spells cannot be stacked--casting the same spell on a target yields no additional effect.

Assist is a static spell. The quote comes from a copy of the rules I downloaded 2 months ago.

Colin! We're screwed!

Hah, hah! I forgot about that myself! I should go back and read our rules!

Thanks for your research, ewookie!

[Deleted]

so...uh...any chance we'll see Assist-I, Assist-II, and Assist-III in future editions of the rules?

[mister frau blucher]

Hmmm...not a bad idea....

[Deleted]

...or you could re-define Assist in a manner similar to Clumsiness and Confusion. +1 for every fatigue point spent. it would keep the length of the rules as short as they are now, but wouldn't really care either way you did it. i would be curious about why whichever way was chosen though. perhaps you think Assist-II should cost more than 2 fatigue and so forth? again, would rather have it as an option than not have it as an option, so whichever ways seems best...just curious.

[klingor]

Hi,
If Assist is to be a 1 point only static spell, then this makes Alchemist a very powerful skill, as a character with Alchemist+5 could create a potion which has the effect of 5 Assist spells being cast at once and being stackable.
Although this costs the character 1 XP to create, he gets it back when the encounter is over and he survives. The other party members also get an XP so there is a net gain for the party, especially if the potion turns the encounter, and there is also the added bonus of the 'spoils of war' to the character for behaving this way.
I agree with ewookie that Assist should be stackable/cumulative like Clumsiness and Confusion. If you wanted to limit it, then simply link the max to the IQ of the casting wizard - IQ9 max of +1, IQ10 max +2 and so on, sort of in the same way that area spells like Fire-3 and Fire-7 are automatically learned as a character's IQ increases if he has Fire-1 without having to spend any XP to learn them as new spells.
All the best
Colin

[Deleted]

klingor,
keep in mind that someone with Alchemist+5 spent 50XP to obtain the skill while someone with the Assist spell spent 10 or 20 XP. Also, as you noted, using Alchemist expends XP instead of Fatigue. so, yes, Alchemist is very powerful...but it's very costly too.

i really don't care if it is stackable/cumulative or if there are 3 different Assist spells, as long as there is some way to buff a stat or skill to +3 using a spell. whether it takes 3 turns or 1 turn doesn't matter to me either. i think there should be a limit to how much buffing can be done. +3 seems decent. +4 seems generous.

i do think defining Assist like Clumsiness or Confusion would be changing 'as little as possible but as much as necessary'. however, i'm willing to pay more in fatigue and XP if defining as Assist-I,II, and III seems more appropriate to Odin (George), Thor (Bret), or Midgard (the community).