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Post by klingor on Sept 3, 2012 14:52:28 GMT -5
Hi,
How often can you visit (and revisit) a shop that has specialist items for sale.
In RCG/FITS,in the RCG, you can visit Orin at the Circle and Star and buy powerstones.
Similarly in FITS, you can visit the Maul and buy fatigue and strength potions from unspecified merchants.
Is there a limit on how often these come in and become available in your campaign?
Cheers
Colin
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Post by bizarrojoe on Feb 20, 2013 21:06:53 GMT -5
This is a really good topic, and a problem I've been thinking about in the game I'm GMing. My players have already run back to town once to heal up, and they asked me if the traders had any new merchandise. At the time, I said no because there hadn't been any caravans through in the week they were away, but the reality was I just didn't know how to approach restocking.
I don't want to randomly add items on a whim, because I'd be concerned that my players will try and take advantage of the situation and incessantly try to haggle for better gear. I also don't want to unintentionally overpower them. So I was thinking about setting up a random method of determining what (if anything) is in stock.
The idea I had was something like this: If the town is really remote, then each time the players visit after a week of traveling there's a 2-in-6 chance that there are new goods (outside of rations and anything that the adventure claims is replenished); if the town is more populated then the odds scale up. After that, a roll on a simple table could determine what is in stock. For example:
Roll 2D6:
2: Mercenary for hire
3: Medkit in stock
4-5: Restock of common armor/shields
6-8: Restock of mundane items (rope, torches, etc)
9-10: Restock of common weapons
11: Masterwork armor
12: Special item / weapon
This is just a rough idea, and comments are welcome.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2013 21:51:55 GMT -5
i'm not sure adding items that weren't there in the beginning is such a good idea...at least not randomly (masterwork armor and special item). you, yourself, mention why this is a bad idea... here's the angle i would take: whatever was already for sale replenishes...but...if demand increases (i.e. your players keep going back and buying more), the prices go up. the price is something you should be able to easily adjust on-the-fly/in-game/in-your-head as needed. up the prices of mundane items by 10% each visit. more valuable items...maybe add 50% markup. special/rare items...100% to 200% markup. these numbers are for illustration only. Jozz the goblin says: "Supply and Demand, Baby!"  really, Jozz or whoever can make all kind of excuses about prices. "this is wild country/dangerous times. who knows when i will get my next shipment. i'm dipping into my surplus to sell you these items." or "taxes have gone up. i have a family and giblets to feed. i'm sorry but i have no choice but to pass the costs on to you." likewise, you can lower the prices for your players if you feel they deserve/need it. from a GM perspective, you are running a small country. Tax and spend as needed. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2013 22:32:46 GMT -5
the above was particularly aimed at bizzarrojoe, GMing to players. the following is aimed at both bizzarrojoe and klingor:
i would not let specialty items replenish. consumables that do not regenerate and mundane items (torches, food, lamp-oil, potions, rope, arrows, etc.) = replenish. weapons, armor, etc. = replenish with significant price increases. magical/superior/masterwork items = no replenish or replenish with extraordinary price increases.
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Post by mister frau blucher on Feb 21, 2013 15:00:55 GMT -5
Hey guys, sorry I missed this topic so many moons ago. Glad y'all picked it back up.
Specialty items (like masterwork stuff and powerstones) shouldn't restock readily. Maybe once a month or so.
Potions and other stuff that needs to be brewed up - maybe a couple of days, if the herbalist/alchemist is on hand. maybe a week if it has to come by caravan (like at Thunder Keep).
Foodstuffs should restock daily.
Now this is just my ideas, and I like the ideas above a lot, as well.
The main thing is as Joe says, not to unbalance the game. Everything restocking fast does that. On the other hand, roleplaying a week at Thunder Keep might not be exciting to the players - or the GM - so handwaving the passage of time in the name of fun is fine.
Thanks again for ressurecting this topic - sorry i missed it initially, Colin!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2013 16:29:39 GMT -5
The main thing is as Joe says, not to unbalance the game. Everything restocking fast does that. On the other hand, roleplaying a week at Thunder Keep might not be exciting to the players - or the GM - so handwaving the passage of time in the name of fun is fine. i agree with all of that. however, if you 'hand-wave' a day or a week away, while letting prices stay the same, what have you accomplished? nothing. that is fine if players are not abusing/gaming the system. i got the impression that his players were abusing/gaming the shop system. hence, the increased prices. consider this: his players already have 1-2 healing potions per character. they decide to go back to town and buy more healing potions just to be safe. they haven't re-stocked yet, so you 'hand-wave' a week away and charge the players for that amount of food and lodging. they buy more healing potions. they say they want to wait another week and buy the next shipment as well. at this point, prices need to go up somewhere. you can do it on the items themselves or on the cost of food and lodging. fast-restocking with the appropriate amount of price increase does not unbalance the game. of course, it's perfectly ok to just put your foot down and say, "NO!", as well, if players are trying to hoard stuff. i prefer to try _discouraging_ before _forbidding_. i never intended to suggest that things immediately restocked. i got the impression that Joe already understood this. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2013 16:49:22 GMT -5
i don't think these items should restock automatically within any given time period...only restock them if you feel your players really need it. if they do, then, yeah, make them wait a spell before they're available again.
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Post by mister frau blucher on Feb 21, 2013 17:21:41 GMT -5
The main thing is as Joe says, not to unbalance the game. Everything restocking fast does that. On the other hand, roleplaying a week at Thunder Keep might not be exciting to the players - or the GM - so handwaving the passage of time in the name of fun is fine. i agree with all of that. however, if you 'hand-wave' a day or a week away, while letting prices stay the same, what have you accomplished? nothing. that is fine if players are not abusing/gaming the system. i got the impression that his players were abusing/gaming the shop system. hence, the increased prices. consider this: his players already have 1-2 healing potions per character. they decide to go back to town and buy more healing potions just to be safe. they haven't re-stocked yet, so you 'hand-wave' a week away and charge the players for that amount of food and lodging. they buy more healing potions. they say they want to wait another week and buy the next shipment as well. at this point, prices need to go up somewhere. you can do it on the items themselves or on the cost of food and lodging. fast-restocking with the appropriate amount of price increase does not unbalance the game. of course, it's perfectly ok to just put your foot down and say, "NO!", as well, if players are trying to hoard stuff. i prefer to try _discouraging_ before _forbidding_. i never intended to suggest that things immediately restocked. i got the impression that Joe already understood this. Agreed on all this. I meant the hand-waving part to speed up play, not to game the system. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2013 17:25:29 GMT -5
i agree with all of that. however, if you 'hand-wave' a day or a week away, while letting prices stay the same, what have you accomplished? nothing. that is fine if players are not abusing/gaming the system. i got the impression that his players were abusing/gaming the shop system. hence, the increased prices. consider this: his players already have 1-2 healing potions per character. they decide to go back to town and buy more healing potions just to be safe. they haven't re-stocked yet, so you 'hand-wave' a week away and charge the players for that amount of food and lodging. they buy more healing potions. they say they want to wait another week and buy the next shipment as well. at this point, prices need to go up somewhere. you can do it on the items themselves or on the cost of food and lodging. fast-restocking with the appropriate amount of price increase does not unbalance the game. of course, it's perfectly ok to just put your foot down and say, "NO!", as well, if players are trying to hoard stuff. i prefer to try _discouraging_ before _forbidding_. i never intended to suggest that things immediately restocked. i got the impression that Joe already understood this. Agreed on all this. I meant the hand-waving part to speed up play, not to game the system. thanks, amigo! |
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Post by bizarrojoe on Feb 21, 2013 20:26:51 GMT -5
Hooray spirited discussions! ;D
I wouldn't say that my players were abusing the system, but the risk was there and I wanted to proactively address the possibility of constantly stocking up in town. I agree with a lot that's been written so far, and I appreciate the feedback.
I think I'm still going to work on a method of rolling up to see if new inventory has arrived in town, but I may change the rules so that rare items couldn't possibly show up unless players leave and return after adventuring for a long period of time. The key provision would be that players have to go adventuring; camping in town for a month would not be fruitful.
So for a lengthy example:
Week 1: 2-in-6 chance there are new items in stock (rolling a 1 or 2 on 1D6). If no items are in stock, then the chances of items coming in stock next week increases to a 3-in-6 chance. New items always include basic provisions like food and torches. Another table would determine what else is in stock:
1-3: New weapons (common)
4-5: New armor (common)
6-10: Minor healing foods (+1 STR)
11-12: Minor medkits (1D6 doses)
13-14: Healing potions
15-16: Random item (GM's discretion)
17-18: Mastercraft item?
In week 1, only 1D6 would be rolled on this table. Prices would be increased by 20%.
Week 2: If there was no stock last week, then there's a 3-in-6 chance this week; otherwise it's a 2-in-6 chance again. If there's no stock this week, AND there wasn't any stock last week, then next week the chances go up to 4-in-6. This can go up to a max of a 5-in-6 chance until something comes back in stock, then it returns to 2-in-6.
Furthermore, 2D6 would be rolled on the above table, and prices would be increased by another 20% if there was new stock last week.
Week 3: If there are goods in stock, then 2D6 would be rolled on the above table, and the prices would be increased by another 20%.
Week 4: If there are goods in stock, then 3D6 would be rolled on the above table, and the prices would be increased by another 20%. It would stay this way each subsequent week that there is stock available.
So basically, each time PCs roll into town (requiring at least a week away), there's a greater chance there will eventually be new goods in stock, and there's also a greater chance that better goods will arrive. However, the more the PCs come looking to buy something, the higher the markup will be. My math and tables may not be right just yet, but it's food for thought.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2013 20:47:26 GMT -5
Hooray spirited discussions! ;D I wouldn't say that my players were abusing the system, but the risk was there and I wanted to proactively address the possibility of constantly stocking up in town. I agree with a lot that's been written so far, and I appreciate the feedback. I think I'm still going to work on a method of rolling up to see if new inventory has arrived in town, but I may change the rules so that rare items couldn't possibly show up unless players leave and return after adventuring for a long period of time. The key provision would be that players have to go adventuring; camping in town for a month would not be fruitful. So for a lengthy example: Week 1: 2-in-6 chance there are new items in stock (rolling a 1 or 2 on 1D6). If no items are in stock, then the chances of items coming in stock next week increases to a 3-in-6 chance. New items always include basic provisions like food and torches. Another table would determine what else is in stock: 1-3: New weapons (common) 4-5: New armor (common) 6-10: Minor healing foods (+1 STR) 11-12: Minor medkits (1D6 doses) 13-14: Healing potions 15-16: Random item (GM's discretion) 17-18: Mastercraft item? In week 1, only 1D6 would be rolled on this table. Prices would be increased by 20%. Week 2: If there was no stock last week, then there's a 3-in-6 chance this week; otherwise it's a 2-in-6 chance again. If there's no stock this week, AND there wasn't any stock last week, then next week the chances go up to 4-in-6. This can go up to a max of a 5-in-6 chance until something comes back in stock, then it returns to 2-in-6. Furthermore, 2D6 would be rolled on the above table, and prices would be increased by another 20% if there was new stock last week. Week 3: If there are goods in stock, then 2D6 would be rolled on the above table, and the prices would be increased by another 20%. Week 4: If there are goods in stock, then 3D6 would be rolled on the above table, and the prices would be increased by another 20%. It would stay this way each subsequent week that there is stock available. So basically, each time PCs roll into town (requiring at least a week away), there's a greater chance there will eventually be new goods in stock, and there's also a greater chance that better goods will arrive. However, the more the PCs come looking to buy something, the higher the markup will be. My math and tables may not be right just yet, but it's food for thought. joe, it's your game. there are things i like about your system and there are things i don't like. i just want to go on record saying this is not what i intended concerning price increases. |
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Post by bizarrojoe on Feb 21, 2013 21:20:14 GMT -5
joe, it's your game...but i would not increase prices on players using your system. i just want to go on record saying this is not what i intended. I understand your intent; the 20% markup was just an example. The point was that each time the PCs came back for more, the price would go up based on demand. It would more likely be a markup based on GM whim. If the PCs were in dire need and dirt poor, then they wouldn't have to pay 100s for beef jerky! ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2013 21:22:13 GMT -5
joe, it's your game...but i would not increase prices on players using your system. i just want to go on record saying this is not what i intended. I understand your intent; the 20% markup was just an example. The point was that each time the PCs came back for more, the price would go up based on demand. It would more likely be a markup based on GM whim. If the PCs were in dire need and dirt poor, then they wouldn't have to pay 100s for beef jerky! ;D maybe you do. maybe you don't. i can't say for sure because i don't know for sure what you intend with your table. i may like your table a whole lot...but it depends. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2013 21:32:40 GMT -5
each 'shop' in the programmed adventures has a 'menu' that is predefined or predetermined. if your table simply restocks the 'menu', i love it...except for the special/mastercraft items. i feel that if the author intended for each member of a party to be able to purchase one of these special items, there would have been at least 4 already in stock. in that case, i would restock it using your table.
if your 'restock table' has the ability to add stuff to the 'menu' that wasn't already there to begin with, it may be ok. it just depends on what you're adding.
either way, the table/rolling per week idea is a great idea. yes, i only intended to increase prices if players were getting greedy.
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Post by mister frau blucher on Feb 22, 2013 10:39:40 GMT -5
I like this idea, Joe.
Also, keep in mind that if they have cleared out a few encounter areas, but don't return for a week or so, others might have moved back in, and they have to start all over again. Things don't need to stay stagnant, and dynamicism in the environment can definitely keep things on track. If players know there are consequences to dallying, they won't dally too long!
You know this already, but I thought it would be a good idea to append it to the discussion, as it can be relevant.
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