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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2013 10:06:49 GMT -5
i've been struggling for some time to craft the perfect Dual-Wielding rule that is simple, balanced, and utilizes existing rules without betraying what i think is realistic. i think i've finally found the right formula (for me anyways).
Dual-Wielding: Make 1 attack from one hand as part of the Action phase. If the other hand is used for a Counterattack Reaction, the next turn is not forfeit. Attacks and counterattacks from the off-hand use an extra die.
what do you think?
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Post by klingor on Feb 11, 2013 16:06:22 GMT -5
I like the idea and it seems to be about the same as the TFT/ITL -4 Dx for Two Weapon attacks.
However, what about LAW weapon skill bonuses? To which hand/attack would they apply?
Apropos of this I've been thinking about how to graft ITL skills and talents into LAW and I've got the germ of an idea about how to do it although it will seem like heresy (multi-sided dice and Runequest). When I've got the principles clear in my mind, I'll start a new thread. Cheers Colin
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2013 17:11:48 GMT -5
weapon skill bonuses? which hand? everything is normal and applied to each hand.
Dude1 is right-handed. He has a short sword in his right-hand and a dagger in his left hand. His Sword+1 is applied to attacks/counterattacks with his right-hand. His Dagger+1 is applied to attacks/counterattacks with his left hand.
If he has a short sword in each hand then his Sword+1 bonus is applied to his attack/counterattack from either hand.
...but attacks/counterattacks with left-hand use an extra-die (or whichever penalty you prefer).
in regards to TFT/ITL skills and talents, that's a very nice thing about LAW being so 'skeletal'. you can graft whatever you want onto it with little chance of contradicting what's already there if craftily done.
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Post by falcon on Feb 11, 2013 22:07:20 GMT -5
I like your duel-weilding rule it makes sense and fits well into LAW. I think I might give it a try.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2013 22:42:06 GMT -5
sweet! glad you like it! keep in mind i designed it so that if you have a Parry rule similar to the following, you can use that instead of the Counterattack reaction.
Parry (Reaction): 3/DX + weapon skill to block or deflect an attack.
Now, that Parry seems a little too powerful to me whether you are dual-wielding or not, but I didn't want to create some really exotic parry rule...so I decided I like the following Fumble rule (i didn't like fumbles before this)
Fumbles: When attacking or parrying, if attributes, skills, and other modifiers would allow a roll of 17 or 18 to be a success, then rolling a 17 or 18 is simply a failure. Otherwise, the character drops the weapon being used. Retrieving the weapon will cost an action.
I'd like to squeeze a little chance of weapon breakage in there somewhere but i still haven't formulated anything that's simple, yet stays true to reality. (a dagger isn't going to shatter a battleaxe, nor would a battleaxe shatter a dagger. the dagger would get dropped along with the hand holding it!)
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Post by mister frau blucher on Feb 13, 2013 10:18:39 GMT -5
This is interesting, ewookie. I have been messing with a few variants to my 4/DX for each hand, I think I'll try this out!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2013 20:21:28 GMT -5
now, if i could just find a parry rule i'm happy with...
actually, i'm tempted to just forget about parry. it's so hard to come up with something that is not exotic yet doesn't steal the thunder of Dodge. it seems to me that parrying is encapsulated in the whole abstracted 'he attacked and missed' thing.
plus, i'd really like to make shields more useful for blocking/deflecting/absorbing damage. 1 to 3 points of damage absorbtion just doesn't seem true to reality, especially if you can parry with a weapon and prevent/block/deflect/absorb more damage. seems like the shield should be better at parrying than a weapon.
dual-wielding already decreases the incentive to carry a shield. add parry to the mix and all the shields in the kingdom will collect dust.
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Post by falcon on Feb 16, 2013 0:06:41 GMT -5
Could you do this? If you have a shield you get a +1 (small shield), +2 (large shield) to your dodge roll. Also you might be able to do the same with a parry. For each +3 levels you have in sword you get +1 to dodge. I think the dodge rules would stay the same, so you need an empty space to move into. Footwork is important in anything you do athletically and for footwork to happen you need room. If you let yourself get boxed in a corner I don’t care who you are you are going to get pounded.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2013 8:47:40 GMT -5
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Post by first on Apr 11, 2013 1:10:32 GMT -5
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Post by mister frau blucher on Apr 11, 2013 12:48:33 GMT -5
I just love your forum.Thanks for posting it. shadi sites it have something that someone comeback again….there is a lot of useful information a person can get from here jobs ads in newspaper…I must say,well done.A good forum with great discussion and a good users,which contribute in the forum Thanks for all the compliments! Hope you still appreciate the forum despite being banned!
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Post by bigthumbtoe on May 29, 2015 0:42:11 GMT -5
Hey everyone, been lurking for a while and figured I'd start here.
Recently I was messing around with different ideas for Dual Wielding. I'll throw a few at the wall and see what you guys think would stick.
To me, dual wielding requires a bit more practice and training therefore needing quiet a bit of DX to be of proper use. When dual wielding, the second weapon would be at a -3DX,+1A for weapons with less than 12 heft and under and -4DX,+2A for weapons greater than 11 heft. Instead of coming up with additional rules for parrying, just say it deflects damage in engaged melee only. If you want to block missile damage, get a shield! Kind of makes up for being able to "attack twice". To use dual wield and attack with both weapons in one action, both attacks are at -3DX. Taking 6 from DX to attack may seem like a lot but dual wielding isn't for rookies. To be proficient at it you have to train and put more into it.
Example; Starter Swordsman 32Pts ST10 DX14(11) IQ8 Cutlass 2d6-2 Cutlass 2d6-2 H10(<12 so -3DX,+1A)
No Armor. Can't afford the penalty, the his swords at least help out a bit in this department.
Skills Sword 1 Dual Wield(make it a Skill that allows the use of two main weapons)
Choosing where to put the Skill points is decided for the whole action and effects both attacks. Swordsman decides to put Sword skill to DX knowing his rolls are going to be hard. AdjDX is now 12 for the action, BUT has to then reduce another -3 for using the Dual Wield Skill for an AdjDX of 9. To me, 9 is pretty tough and the odds aren't in your favor. I don't start to feel comfortable unless its at least an 11 or 12. By leveling up DX instead of ST may help you get those hits in later but at a cost of using smaller, less damaging weapons. Feels a bit balanced so far.
Or how about first strike is at -4DX and second at -2DX. Think first strike comes in, probably getting blocked while the follow up gets a cleaner shot because the defender is a little preoccupied with the first. Using the example Swordsman above that means first strike is at AdjDX 8 and second AdjDX 10. I actually like that rule better than the -3 each. To try and start off with a character using dual wield is pretty gutsy. It would better serve as something learned as your swordsman gets stronger and hones his skills more. Let me know what you guys think and tell me if any of this makes sense and I'm not just making tired ramblings on the internet.
Thanks BigThumbToe(Chris)
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Post by mister frau blucher on May 29, 2015 14:54:56 GMT -5
Hey BigThumbToe,
Welcome to the boards!
Wow, great, thoughtful post. A lot to digest here.
A couple of initial thoughts:
The DX penalty for dualwielding - this is like armor? That is, it does not affect only your attack role, but every DX check you must make as well (like Dodging)? I ask because you give the DX as 14 (11).
The armor benefit (1 or 2 hits stopped, depending on weapons) to represent parrying - interesting, and of course only applies to melee and not missile weapons.
What do you do if you have two different weapons, like a broadsword (H12) in one hand and a shortsword (H11) in the other? I assume the -3/1 for H11 or less and -4/2 for H12 plus discussed above means using the same weapon in each hand?
I think I like the -3 to each attack, rahter than -4/-2. I see your point about the defender being a little preoccupied with the first strike, but I am not sure that makes the physical act of striking with the second weapon any more accurate in and of itself...
Anyway, a very nice post, and the more I think about this, the more I kinda like it...
Welcome, again!
Bret
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Post by bigthumbtoe on May 29, 2015 21:14:58 GMT -5
Wow, this board is pretty thorough. I wouldn't expect any less!
Making the second weapon affect DX isn't to out of the realm of realistic possibilty. If wearing cloth, leather, or a shield effects it, why couldn't additional weapons? Does a shield not effect DX checks when its on your back? That thought never really crossed my mind before. If it doesn't, then sheathing your secondary weapon wouldn't either. That might be a way around that and still keep it simple.
For DX/A adjustment, only the second weapon equipped gets the modifier. You choose which weapon you put out in front to be your main parrying/blocking weapon(secondary weapon). A dual wield block normally consists of one weapon taking the blow and a second weapon behind it supporting it, normally in an "X" fashion. Of course that example is seen more in modern fantasy settings using bigger swords stopping even bigger swords... Guy one is always seen stopping another with his "X" block and pushing back hard enough to throw guy two back. Parrying with rapiers looks like it works a bit different. More finess and technique.
Keeping things to -3 both attacks would definitly keep the rules lighter in a place where things are getting a bit crowded.
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