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Post by ednote on Aug 7, 2014 12:39:44 GMT -5
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Post by ednote on Aug 7, 2014 12:52:04 GMT -5
Bret, At this point we need to establish the scope of a potential game. Is it to be like other DCG games with 4-6 PCs in pre-programmed scenarios or is it to be a full fledged skirmish game with multiple players and perhaps a ref?
In the first situation, any positional modifiers can be written in by the creators of the scenarios, with guidelines provided by the rules. In the second, things must be set down more solidly. Whenever a ref sets up a scenario, he (or she) sets the conditions and makes the judgment calls. Otherwise, the rules need to be very clear. Since DCG games tend to be quick and easy to play, you might want to set an arbitrary limit to the number of pages to limit complexity or limit the number of types modifiers to hit, to damage, etc...
Do you want to have a couple of sheets of charts to moderate game play (as opposed to generating and equipping characters)? What will be the scale of the game board? Once modern firearms do into play, boards tend to grow. Are you going to abandon the hexagon-based maps and go to measurement by inches or centimeters? Perhaps you would have inches for controlling 25mm scale figures/counters and centimeters for 15mm figures/counters. Before you can make judgments about setting modifiers, you need to decide the basic structure and scope of the game.
As I posted earlier, there are plenty of game systems for WW2. Some tend to undergo revisions and become more complex. I think there is a place for a more simple system, which can allow plenty of complexity in play. (Easy rules with complex play is exemplified by chess.) I would suggest that ease of play and reduction of time required to set up scenarios would be a priority. Sheets of pre-generated characters, squads, or whatever is needed for play, should be provided in the rules. Rules for generating them should be included, as they already are in DCG's other games. But including sheets which can be printed off can save an hour or two of preparation time for a game.
Now lets turn to the next problem, vehicles. Do we want to include trucks? bicycles? tanks? inflatable rafts? aircraft?
Heavy weapons from HMGs to artillery need to be considered. Even if they are omitted as being out of scope of the game, that needs to be considered.
Are the added complexities to be left for inclusion via scenarios?
Do we want to add the fantastic to the game? Are there Nazi labs dedicated to creating armies of zombies? Do those labs include incessessant re-runs of Gilligan's Island and Leave It to Beaver? There are many things to consider...
Regards, Ed
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Post by jimmyd on Aug 20, 2014 14:54:51 GMT -5
Great thread guys. Bret, I also read Marshall's book and have played some miniature rules that use his analysis as straight rules... a little slow for gaming. The important thing to take from his findings is that leadership is key (non com's run the armies) and that distance to a leader is also important.I'll start thinking on how vehicles effect the game. -Jimmyd
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Post by mister frau blucher on Aug 25, 2014 19:38:58 GMT -5
Hey guys,
Seems there is some intrest in developing these. I'll open a thread for the rules - taking what we have written in this thread and consolidating it.
Or should we open up another forum on it, with threads started on specific aspects? We can sticky the main rules thread as we playtest and revise.
Some thoughts to Ed above:
Scale: Squad level is how I see it. Attrition will be much higher than in LAW and LTS, where there are healing potions/serums. Honestly, I think it can be both skirmish game and RPG, suitable for programmed adventures, or single scenarios, or a campaign of scenarios only. A judge always helps, but shouldn't be necessary, whether a published scenario or one created by the two players.
Right on concerning rules length. We can have some supplemental material, but the core rules should be a max of 12 pages. Hopefully, tables/charts can be kept to a minimum (though I love ASL tables!), to keep rules referencing during play to a minimum.
I think retain hexes on the board, but the scale is a serious question. The urban-based Sniper had 2 yards to a hex, and Patrol, which was outdoors combat, was 5 yards a hex. I'd like to keep our 5 foot hex scale for now, since that was more or less what stuff like grenades were based on; but that can change if development indicates it should.
"As I posted earlier, there are plenty of game systems for WW2. Some tend to undergo revisions and become more complex. I think there is a place for a more simple system, which can allow plenty of complexity in play. (Easy rules with complex play is exemplified by chess.) I would suggest that ease of play and reduction of time required to set up scenarios would be a priority. Sheets of pre-generated characters, squads, or whatever is needed for play, should be provided in the rules. Rules for generating them should be included, as they already are in DCG's other games. But including sheets which can be printed off can save an hour or two of preparation time for a game."
I agree; everything here should be guiding design principles.
I think heavy weapons like Offboard Artillery could have a place, but let them be a secondary consideration at this point. If we can figure them out later in a 1/2 page of rules, even better.
I do think published scenarios should have special rules. Not that they are necessary, but they can reflect the tactical or strategic realities of any particular encounter. Victory Conditions will reflect this, but specific conditions can as well. But again, these conditions should be simple.
As far as the fantastic, not in the base game, or in the first scenario packs/adventures. If someone wants to pursue it later, the rules could probably accomodate it.
Thanks, Ed!
Bret
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Post by mister frau blucher on Aug 25, 2014 19:48:23 GMT -5
Great thread guys. Bret, I also read Marshall's book and have played some miniature rules that use his analysis as straight rules... a little slow for gaming. The important thing to take from his findings is that leadership is key (non com's run the armies) and that distance to a leader is also important.I'll start thinking on how vehicles effect the game. -Jimmyd Hey, Jimmy, Which rulesets use Marshall's analysis? I have Angriff! and Banzai!, but nothing else from the 60's/70's mini gaming scene. (I always wanted Tractics...) Yes, agreed that Leadership is key, and distance is relevant. By all means, if you can think of some simple AFV rules, let's check 'em out! I know you have some direct experience with vehicular gaming... Thanks Jimmy! Bret
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Post by ednote on Aug 26, 2014 11:13:54 GMT -5
Bret, For Command and Control, see if you can get a copy of the old "Striker" rules by GDW. It was an adjunct to Traveler. Those rules require very definite times to communicate orders, etc... and are probably the best I have ever seen to incorporate those issues.
Regards, Ed
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Post by sendrid3 on Aug 26, 2014 15:57:34 GMT -5
Bret, For Command and Control, see if you can get a copy of the old "Striker" rules by GDW. It was an adjunct to Traveler. Those rules require very definite times to communicate orders, etc... and are probably the best I have ever seen to incorporate those issues. Regards, Ed It's been years but I remember enjoying the Striker command and control rules. I've uploaded a pdf of the rule to my 4Shared account here: 4Shared Striker pdfI have some ideas on this stuff but have been too busy to put them into a coherent form so I'm just going to share some characters I build for amusement during endless staff meetings. Soldato Luigi Pisano Italian Conscript (Green) St 9 Dx 12 IQ 9 Skills Rifle/SubMG: +1 with shoulder-fired weapon Bayonet Fighting: +1when using rifle mounted bayonet Grenades +1 Carcano M1891 6.5mm 3D6-1 9 60 rounds Bayonet 1D6 - Treat as spear when mounted on rifle 2 x Frag Grenades 3D6 6 Sergente Leonardo Garibaldi Italian Army (Trained) St 10 Dx 12 IQ 10 Skills Rifle/SubMG: +1 with shoulder-fired weapon Bayonet Fighting: +1when using rifle mounted bayonet Grenades +1 Leadership Beretta Model 1938A 9mm 2D-1 9 20 rounds 4 clips Bayonet 1D6 - Treat as spear when mounted on rifle 2 x Frag Grenades 3D6 6 Pvt William "Billy" Cornfed 101st Airborne (Veteran) St 10 Dx 13 IQ 11 Skills Rifle/SubMG: +1 with shoulder-fired weapon Bayonet Fighting: +1when using rifle mounted bayonet Grenades +1 Parachuting 3D6/Dx Pistol: +1 with hand-fired weapon M1 Garand .30-06. 3D6 10 120 rounds 15 enbloc mag Bayonet 1D6 - Treat as spear when mounted on rifle 4 x Frag Grenades 3D6 6 M1911A1 Colt. .45ACP 2D6 9 14 rounds 2 clips Lt. Charles Wombat Royal Navy Intelligence (Veteran) St 10 Dx 12 IQ 12 Skills Rifle/SubMG: +1 with shoulder-fired weapon Code Breaking 3D6/IQ Language German Language Italian Pistol: +1 with hand-fired weapon Sten Mk II 9mm 2D6-1 9 120 rounds 4 clips Webley No. 1 Mk VI .455 2D6 9 12 rounds Hope you enjoy Pete
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