Flaming Torches and Gauche Weapons in Combat

[ednote]

Are there any rules for the use of flaming torches etc... in LAW? I was thinking a d6-1 for damage and a hit, regardless of whether of not any points of damage are landed, means that the target could not react this round except to try to avoid the flames. Flaming torches could be used in the off hand in lieu of a shield or WITH a small shield if that shield were to be a targe (a small shield strapped to the forearm of the off hand). In my games, I allow an archer/slinger/crossbowman to wear a targe and still shoot.  I allow a main-gauche to be used as a 1/0 shield vs. melee only.  Bucklers, small shields held only in the fist (i.e. no arm straps) should be allowed to punch and to be used in grappling attacks.

Comments welcomed.

Thanks,

Ed

[nukesnipe]

I'd have to pull out my Advanced Melee rules when I get home, but I believe a torch counted as a club doing double damage to flammable objects like mummies. Of course, LAW doesn't do the whole double damage thing....

I also remember a Main Gauche stopping 1 hit or being used as a 1d weapon, but not both in the same turn. The ITL Fencing skill played into that, but it's a bit fuzzy and I haven't had enough caffeine yet....

[ednote]

The main-gauche mechanics you mention are the ones I was thinking.

I think that torches would do less damage because the flaming bit at the end would buffer the blow. The fire would likely do little damage but would put off a melee opponent. Wild animals will tend to avoid fire and smoke even more than more sapient foes.


Ed

[mister frau blucher]

Interesting, Ed. Do you allow characters to strike with the torch as well as get the 1/0 from the targe?

[ednote]

No. The targe has to be used intentionally. That allows a character to retain a torch or weapon in that hand, but not to use it if parrying.

I think that a main-gauche would still be useful, thus giving 2/0 vs melee and 1/0 vs missile.

To clarify an earlier post, I think that double damage to mummies etc... would be appropriate.

Of course, if a character is counting on the torch being used as a weapon to also provide light, then care should be taken to avoid extinguishing the torch. In my games I have tended to press the point of which party members are carrying lights. This has had the effect of keeping some characters from fighting in certain rounds. It has also gotten one or two to claim, unsuccessfully, that their characters are carrying strike-anywhere matches in lieu of the flint & steel actually available.

I have observed than when a party loses its light, it tended to go fully defensive around whoever is trying to relight it, after a round of recriminations. It should also be noted that if the character should the character fumble that his roll, flint, steel, and tinder are likely to migrate in separate directions. When this happens a rousing chorus of Billy Joel's "We Didn't Start the Fire" appears to be more or less mandatory.

Now I suppose I'll have to contemplate flaming oil as a weapon, in case someone wants to use it. The oils available to the Dark Age/Medieval person tended to be far less volatile than petroleum-based liquids. A lot of vegetable oils are not amenable to being thrown like so much Greek Fire. When I was in college, I even did a few experiments to prove the point. (Well, those dead weeds in the garden needed dealing with...)


Regards,
Ed

[jlv61560]

Well, I'm no expert in shooting a bow -- but I'd think having something as unwieldy as even a targe strapped to your arm while you're trying to shoot would still reduce your DX a bit (say -2DX). Do you have any examples in history where bowmen used shields while they were shooting? Offhand, I can't think of any, not even the Mongols or various oriental armies, who often did things that seem a bit strange to those of us from the western world. In fact, I seem to remember that shieldsmen were sometimes mixed in with archers to give them some protection from return fire, because the archers themselves couldn't both shoot and protect themselves.

But I'd certainly be interested in any historical examples you can give! ;-)

[ednote]

I have seen pictures but I can't remember where. I think some of the Border Reivers and Moss Troopers are reported to have used them with bows and latches (horsemen's light crossbows). The targe (a form of target shield) is a very small shield and is affixed to the forearm with a pair of straps. In the age of plate armor, it became more or less subsumed into the armor of the shield arm. I'll look around to see if I can find firm sources.

Regards,
Ed

[jlv61560]

Yep, I'm familiar with the term -- I just think it would bind your draw (potentially) wearing something like that while trying to draw a bow. Perhaps that's only true for larger bows, though? I wonder if the Byzantine Cataphracts used anything like that?

[araman]

I would think that it would be possible to draw a bow with some sort of forearm shield, depending on the size and design of the shield. I would think that the shield might have limited use though. I don't know how comfortable I'd be trying to stop a full force blow with a piece of metal strapped on my forearm.

I do seem to remember seeing paintings/drawings with some sort of shield like that. I couldn't tell you if they were historically correct though. If I recall correctly, they weren't very big though.

[araman]

I've done a little more thinking about this. While it might be possible to draw a bow with weight on your forearm, I think it would seriously affect your accuracy, especially after holding your draw for any amount of time. (Try holding even a pencil in a fully extended arm for 5-10 minutes and see how your arm feels.) For area targets, probably not so much a concern, but for point targets, probably so unless you have "Popeye" arms. So the question becomes, do you want a realistic simulation or a fantastic fantasy game?