Paragraph 092

[jonathan1971]

The mage offers to sell me a book of spells of Summon Minor Demon and Banish but I don't see them listed in the adventure.  The paragraph says to see appendix B.  But appendix B. contains summon skeleton and summon sewer worm.  Should I ignore this entrée or consider the skeleton and sewer-worm the spells that are for sail.  

If the spells are located in another adventure could you tell me what the stats are for the spells?  I checked the other adventure I have and those are not listed.  

Thanks

[araman]

Good question. Off the top of my head and not looking at it, I'd say to play with what you have available.

[jonathan1971]

the dark vale

[mister frau blucher]

Holy cow, not sure how this got by us! I think my original document was eaten in a hard drive crash, but let me look into this. Sorry, Jonathan, and thanks for bringing this up!

Bret

[mister frau blucher]

I checked out my hardcopy of this, and it says the same as yours. My original document is long gone, unfortunately. I did find another document that contains some old notes, including these spells. So here they are - 10 years late!

Summon Minor Demon IQ14 5F
ST35 DX11 IQ12; MA14 Flying; Claws 2d6+2; Demonic skin 4/0.

Banish IQ12 4F
By winning an IQ check against the IQ level of the summoning spell (opposed roll is 3/IQ), the summoned being is banished back to its home.

Note that this Banish spell is similar to the Dispel Magic spell that we added a few years ago. The DM spell is more powerful, as it can be applied against any spell, not just Summoning spells. It does have a higher IQ requirement, though.

[platimus]

Dec 5, 2017 20:21:30 GMT -5 mister frau blucher said:

I checked out my hardcopy of this, and it says the same as yours. My original document is long gone, unfortunately. I did find another document that contains some old notes, including these spells. So here they are - 10 years late!

Summon Minor Demon IQ14 5F
ST35 DX11 IQ12; MA14 Flying; Claws 2d6+2; Demonic skin 4/0.

Banish IQ12 4F
By winning an IQ check against the IQ level of the summoning spell (opposed roll is 3/IQ), the summoned being is banished back to its home.

Note that this Banish spell is similar to the Dispel Magic spell that we added a few years ago. The DM spell is more powerful, as it can be applied against any spell, not just Summoning spells. It does have a higher IQ requirement, though.

I'm so glad you added that last note. I never realized DM could be used like that. My perspective was that once the creature was summoned, the spell/magic was over and there was nothing to dispel. I think I will keep treating it that way for myself for a couple of reasons but it's good to know the official take on it.

[mister frau blucher]

I think you can make a thoughtful argument either way. Maybe it makes better sense to have Banish be the only way to get rid of summoned creatures, rather than have DM "unsummon" them; as you point out; the Magic has already happened...

Official...well, like so many things in our rules, this is an official grey area. Gamemaster fiat for the win!

[platimus]

Well, I came back to post that I've changed my mind
That happened once I saw a logical way of explaining it. Once the creature is summoned, that part of the magic is over. However, he's still exercising magical control over the creature. The DM spell would break that magical control, leaving the creature free to do whatever it wishes - leave, stay, fight, etc. Usually it would return from whence it came but the subtle distinction between Banish and DM could lead to some interesting possibilities.

EDIT
On further thought, maybe the creature would stay fight if it were already engaged in combat but depart if not. Or maybe it would attack the closest (N)PC - even if that (N)PC was the "summoner". That last option is what I was thinking about when I mentioned "interesting possibilities" before. The first thought in this EDIT is signal that I've changed my tune regarding "Usually it would return from whence it came". Please note, all of this post refers to Dispel Magic being used to thwart a summoning spell. Obviously, the Banish spell would remove the summoned creature from the playing field.

EDIT2
In conclusion/summary, yes, thoughtful arguments could be made either way. I think I'll let a d6 decide what happens when DM is used to "banish" a summoned creature. In general, on a 1-4 the creature leaves. On 5-6, it stays and attacks the closest character - even if that is the character that summoned it.