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Post by mister frau blucher on Dec 26, 2017 21:26:06 GMT -5
Hello, all, As the thread title states: www.sjgames.com/ill/archive/2017-12-26This is great for Steve Jackson, and the hobby in general. No idea how this will affect us or our work. This all was announced today, and SJ Games made it clear there are no concrete plans, beyond a likely kickstarter for Melee next year. This is not an "official" statement, just my personal congratulations to Steve Jackson! Bret
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Post by darkpumpkin on Dec 26, 2017 22:35:07 GMT -5
Holy MOLY! After decades of interest in TFT, and accepting that this meant poring over ancient artifacts from the 1970s and 80s which most other gamers saw only as quaint relics, there will actually be a revival from Steve Jackson Games! This is just about the biggest news I could have expected in the RPG area. I hope that this will not affect DCG negatively. Will have to wait and see. Perhaps a partnership with SJG could be in the future?
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Post by platimus on Dec 28, 2017 10:56:17 GMT -5
I am not thrilled at all. After years of looking over various systems, this TFT-ish system became my absolute favorite because of the simplicity and free-for-all nature of it. With the rights being in a quasi-limbo state, it made it a sort of quasi-opensource system. Now, it will be "All hail SJG!" (imperial march plays)
I guess I'll be buying the few DCG adventures I don't already own very soon. Been nice knowing you guys.
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Post by mister frau blucher on Dec 28, 2017 12:26:42 GMT -5
Well, George and Steve spoke by phone yesterday, as he announced on their forums. I can't say anything about the specifics, but it was a positive conversation. I think we'd all like to move forward, maybe working together somehow. I don't believe SJG has any solid plans for TFT yet. Once they do, we'll probably have a more in-depth discussion with them.
That said, anything can happen, but I am optimistic at this point.
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Post by platimus on Dec 28, 2017 15:37:43 GMT -5
Well, George and Steve spoke by phone yesterday, as he announced on their forums. I can't say anything about the specifics, but it was a positive conversation. I think we'd all like to move forward, maybe working together somehow. I don't believe SJG has any solid plans for TFT yet. Once they do, we'll probably have a more in-depth discussion with them. That said, anything can happen, but I am optimistic at this point. Took me a bit to find the post in question but here it is. If I had really been thinking, I would have grabbed the link to it but alas... Originally Posted by JLV View Post Okay, someone's gotta ask, so I'll be the lightning rod here... Steve, any idea how, if at all, any of this will affect Dark City Games? Steve's response A fair question, because the Dark City situation doesn't really have a precedent in the hobby AFAIK. It would not have been right to talk ABOUT Dark City until I had talked TO them, but I just finished a very pleasant call with George Dew. So the executive summary is, we are talking In my perfect Year 2019 or 2020, there would be no "clone rules" on the market, but there would be a wide variety of "new" fan-written adventures available under the TFT banner. I should not say "fan," because if these guys sell me a dozen adventures, they are pros.I bolded what is discouraging to me. Especially the part about "no clone rules on the market". Maybe that part won't be a problem because you guys don't technically "sell" your rules, just the adventures. But it would be a problem for HOW. Nevertheless, the second part sounds like you guys might have to pay some licensing fees or royalties or something. That alone gives me a discouraging impression considering how many times you guys have said you don't really make money. I dunno. Maybe George can use his CIA resources to "persuade" Steve to leave you guys alone. hahaha O.o I was really hoping for this stuff to go into public-domain at some point. Oh well.
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Post by araman on Dec 28, 2017 16:13:21 GMT -5
I read it differently. I didn't get any animosity from Steve Jackson. Although there was plenty of derision and hostility from "larsdangly."
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Post by platimus on Dec 28, 2017 18:07:24 GMT -5
I read it differently. I didn't get any animosity from Steve Jackson. Although there was plenty of derision and hostility from "larsdangly." For the record, I didn't get any animosity from Steve either. But that's not really relevant. Steve made his desires pretty clear. The question is can he make his desire a reality? Keeping "clone rules" off the market doesn't require any animosity. Just persistent will and lawyers. I didn't read anything from "larsdangly" or anyone else. I just skimmed for Steve's comment about talking to George. EDIT Interesting. I went back and read all of "larsdangly's" posts. The only "negative comments" he had were toward HOW and they were far from "derision and hostility". Perhaps his posts have since been edited or perhaps...
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Post by mister frau blucher on Dec 29, 2017 1:07:28 GMT -5
If I'd written TFT back in '77, I probably would be disappointed at the existence of clone rules, too. I understand his having a vision of what his "perfect" world would be in 2019. We'll see how it all plays out, but I think we might all want the same thing, ultimately.
It's always tough to read people's intent on the net. I've read the same post differently on separate occasions, and I've had people take things I've said differently than I intended.
If Steve really wanted everyone shut down, he probably would have sent a wave of lawyers ahead of him; instead, he gave a "hell yeah" announcement when things were official. And he called George directly. This is so much better than it could have been initially; that is one reason why I am encouraged.
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Post by platimus on Dec 29, 2017 3:24:10 GMT -5
If I'd written TFT back in '77, I probably would be disappointed at the existence of clone rules, too. I understand his having a vision of what his "perfect" world would be in 2019. We'll see how it all plays out, but I think we might all want the same thing, ultimately. It's always tough to read people's intent on the net. I've read the same post differently on separate occasions, and I've had people take things I've said differently than I intended. If Steve really wanted everyone shut down, he probably would have sent a wave of lawyers ahead of him; instead, he gave a "hell yeah" announcement when things were official. And he called George directly. This is so much better than it could have been initially; that is one reason why I am encouraged. I honestly hope I'm wrong about my sense of what will happen now. You seem upbeat and you're on the inside, so I'll take your upbeat word for it. For now
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Post by chrisrice on Dec 29, 2017 11:58:03 GMT -5
I think this is tremendous news and long awaited by those of us who loved TFT. I don't see it at all negatively. We finally get a chance, hopefully, for a republishing of the original materials and perhaps some new stuff like a monster manual, etc. Now, as to how it will affect Dark City games....what I expect is that SJ games will simply licence you to continue producing products which will be "approved for TFT" or some such. As to the Legends rules, I'm not so sure. I have many of your excellent adventures but I've always used Melee/Wizard/ITL for them anyway (although I think you did come up with some good ideas which I've adopted such as removing continuing spell costs). I think we should all try to look at this development positively. If the rereleased game is popular it can surely only increase interest in Dark City products.
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Post by mister frau blucher on Dec 29, 2017 12:30:25 GMT -5
Chris,
Welcome to our boards!
I agree that this is a great thing for all of us TFT lovers. And the news of Steve getting it back has boosted our signal a bit. We'll see how things develop regarding our company and adventures, but I am definitely inclined to view the future positively.
Thanks for your support!
Bret
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Post by platimus on Dec 30, 2017 0:27:07 GMT -5
I do look forward to being able to buy the TFT materials with a modern presentation. Of course, that's good. However, I like the LAW rules (or at least LAW circa 2012 rules) much more than the TFT rules. My concern is those rules will now be abandoned.
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Post by chrisrice on Dec 30, 2017 7:35:52 GMT -5
Well the rules exist and so will still be available. After all, you have a copy of them, I have a copy of them and so do many others. The PDF has been widely shared. . LAW is a simple system to allow people to play the DC adventures and they will be able to continue to do so if they want to whether officially or unofficially.
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Post by platimus on Dec 30, 2017 11:19:29 GMT -5
Well the rules exist and so will still be available. After all, you have a copy of them, I have a copy of them and so do many others. The PDF has been widely shared. . LAW is a simple system to allow people to play the DC adventures and they will be able to continue to do so if they want to whether officially or unofficially. This is true. I'm gonna do my own thing anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter. However, I think DCG made significant improvements on the basic TFT mechanics. It would still sadden me to see that abandoned in an official manner.
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Post by chrisrice on Dec 30, 2017 14:50:56 GMT -5
It may be that Steve will look at the work done over the years by Dark City, Christopher Brandon, David O. Miller and others (in fact he's already contacted at least two of those) and incorporate some ideas. He may even have had some ideas of his own in the last 35 years. We'll have to wait and see what happens but it is very exciting, to me anyway.
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