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Post by platimus on Dec 30, 2017 19:18:19 GMT -5
It may be that Steve will look at the work done over the years by Dark City, Christopher Brandon, David O. Miller and others (in fact he's already contacted at least two of those) and incorporate some ideas. He may even have had some ideas of his own in the last 35 years. We'll have to wait and see what happens but it is very exciting, to me anyway. I think we can see what ideas Steve has had over the last 35 years in GURPS. Ultimately, I don't care how any of this benefits Steve but thanks for trying to console me.
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Post by chrisrice on Dec 31, 2017 11:15:23 GMT -5
I won't be interested either if the re-release goes down the GURPS route, but I don't think it will. SJ is smarter than that and he knows his audience. From his comments on his own website he's clear that TFT is a totally different game and fulfills a different need than GURPS. As someone there said, keep the game basically the same and expand it with material not complexity.
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Post by platimus on Dec 31, 2017 12:17:40 GMT -5
I won't be interested either if the re-release goes down the GURPS route, but I don't think it will. SJ is smarter than that and he knows his audience. From his comments on his own website he's clear that TFT is a totally different game and fulfills a different need than GURPS. As someone there said, keep the game basically the same and expand it with material not complexity. Someone there gave him some excellent advice. If anything changes, it should be to simplify.
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Post by mabon5127 on Dec 31, 2017 14:39:33 GMT -5
This is great news that TFT will be available once again. The Better news will be that DCG will continue to be allowed under some agreement to produce solo adventures. The best news will have the sharp increase in sales of the DCG games based on the revived TFT!
Good for SJG's as they have the resources to do a good job and it re-unites the game with the original designer.
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Post by darkpumpkin on Jan 2, 2018 1:20:05 GMT -5
From reading the SJG forums it's heartening to see that Steve is taking an active interest in "his baby" even to the point of contacting Pat Hidy and Liz Danforth about the possibility of doing art for the new release. I feel we are going to get some great products in the end. Still to be honest I will try to complete my DCG collection soon, just in case there isn't good news on the SJG/DCG front.
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Post by jonathan1971 on Jan 4, 2018 20:33:52 GMT -5
I am happy and afraid at the same time.
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Post by nukesnipe on Jan 12, 2018 19:10:42 GMT -5
Given that Steve wrote only the TFT rules and just a couple of the 8 solo supplements for the original game, I'm guessing the DCG boyz have a future publishing their adventures as SJG sanctioned products. I think that would open their talents up to those TFTers who don't know about DCG. Or, vice versa.
As for the game mechanics, I think it would be pure beauty if SJG scrapped the current TFT skill system (skills by IQ level and IQ cost) and go for what DCG/HOW have run with it. Ditto for the stat advancement.
All in all, I'm pretty excited about all of it.
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Post by jlv61560 on Jan 13, 2018 2:03:33 GMT -5
A couple of things.
First, congrats to Steve -- it's nice that justice has finally been served and he's been able to reclaim his baby after all these years. I also note from an interview he did a couple of days after the announcement (it's linked in the thread over on SJG), he specifically stated that TFT had a different role and place in the games he will publish "more suitable for fantasy and dungeon crawling than GURPS is." Which is kind of a remarkable statement, coming on the heels of the release of Dungeon Fantasy...
Second, I'm the "JLV" who asked the question over on the SJG boards, mostly because George and I had been chatting about this news right before it broke (me asking if he'd heard the rumors that had been floating around for a month or two, mostly), and I was immediately concerned if we were going to get some kind of "retro TSR legal trolls" stuff going down, but the good news is that Steve almost immediately got on the phone with George, and they apparently had a very amicable discussion -- according to both Steve and George. That's GOT to be good news for us all. As far as Steve's "in my perfect world" comment -- well, yeah, I can see how he'd feel that way -- he sure doesn't want a competitor for the same basic system; but here's the thing -- YOU CAN'T COPYRIGHT A GAME SYSTEM. This according to the US Copyright Office. And frankly, DCG made enough changes to the system that it is arguably a different system, which means legally, SJG doesn't have a leg to stand on, and I doubt they'd want to waste the money on legal foolishness anyway -- Steve has never struck me as "that kind of guy." He likes to make games, not scuffle in courtrooms. I think all in all, he'll just be happy if he can reach some kind of licensing agreement with Dark City. If DCG opts to cancel their rules, fine, but either way. Also, I note that every single copy of each of DCG's adventures has a copy of the basic rules relevant to that adventure in it (LAW, T&S, and the old west rules), which means that even if DCG DOES get rid of their rules for some reason, we all still have them and can use them anytime we want. And in the end, even if they sell every new adventure they come up with to SJG from here on out, they can still at least host their own set of rules on their web site, no problem.
Third and finally, I refuse to start mourning at the funeral of DCG until I hear from George himself that he's quitting. This is a GREAT game company, and I personally LOVE their work. The new TFT will be a huge opportunity for DCG, not a calamity, in my honest opinion.
(And I just want to say that I too, prefer DCG's talent system and changes to the magic spell rules to the existing TFT ones -- but Steve has plans to rewrite at least some of the rules, so who knows what the "Designer's Edition" of TFT will finally look like? What's mostly needed now is time, and to let Steve get a feel for how Steve thinks things will go on the TFT redesign front, before we get too concerned about these "end of DCG" concerns. Again, not trying to be curmudgeonly here, but we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves...)
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Post by kommisar on Jan 15, 2018 18:53:23 GMT -5
Steve Jackson only acquired the trademarks and copyrights to the original fantasy trip stuff. If legend of the ancient world rules are a cleanly created original work, Steve Jackson does not control them.
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Post by chrisgoodwin on Jan 15, 2018 19:31:23 GMT -5
Hi all. I wrote my own clone version, WARRIOR & WIZARD, a number of years ago. When I heard that Steve Jackson had contacted George Dew, I emailed Steve to ask him what he wanted me to do with mine. Ultimately he asked me to take it down, and I have done so. There was no animosity or anything like that. I fully intend to buy new copies of the original games as they become available.
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Post by jlv61560 on Jan 15, 2018 20:30:30 GMT -5
Hi Chris,
I just wanted to say that I think it's a shame. I liked your version a lot. Glad I downloaded it years ago!
But I also want to say kudos to you for being honest, and up-front with Steve. I sincerely hope he talks to you about some of the changes you made and why you made them as he decides how he wants to mold "2nd ed" TFT. I personally think you had good ideas.
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Post by nukesnipe on Jan 16, 2018 13:16:15 GMT -5
I've been reading my ITL book these past couple of evenings and I have to admit that I really do not like how talents/skills are treated. I can't remember when I first came across the term "Conan the Librarian", but it came crashing home to me last night when I began to remember how my 32-pt wizards fared against my 50-pt barbarians. "Ha, puny wizard! I scoff at your sorry attempt of an illusion!" Hack, hack, end of story. I believe that if any part of TFT needs to be revised, its skills/talents. Perhaps SJG can learn a few new tricks from DCG, W&W and HOW?
Case in point, based on personal experience. On my first ship we an a NUCLEAR TRAINED Electrician's Mate - as in A GRADUATE OF THE NAVY NUCLEAR PROPULSION TRAINING PROGRAM - who was a phonetic speller and was functionally illiterate - he simply couldn't read. I discovered this one night when he came into the control station and set his logs down. Bored, I picked them up for review and saw his phonetic spelling. A couple of simple tests and I realized he couldn't read our technical manuals. It didn't make sense! This was the guy that was systematically eliminating 115 volt grounds throughout the ship (sort of like trying to find a diamond in a pile of broken glass). There wasn't anything that had electrons flowing through it that he couldn't fix. We got him into an adult education program and he was right as rain.
The point is, this EM wasn't the brightest bulb on the tree, but he was a complete savant when it came to electricity. Average to below-average IQ, but wickedly skilled. I wish TFT's skill/talent system could/would reflect that the way DCG's does.
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Post by mister frau blucher on Jan 17, 2018 19:59:13 GMT -5
Hey kommisar,
Welcome to our boards!
The DNA is pretty clear in the Legends rules, even though we went with a skill system and simplified things a bit. When you look at the OSR and how close games like Swords and Wizardry, Labyrinth Lord, and OSRIC (to name a few of dozens and dozens) are to D&D (ie, almost identical), LAW is further away from TFT than those are from D&D. I am sure if we wanted to wage a legal war, we would be legally correct, but he'd still be able to afford more and better lawyers.
However, I don't want it to come to that. We really want to work with Steve. He hasn't asked us to take down LAW, though I do not think he is crazy about its existence at this point. We'll see where things go.
Bret
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Post by mister frau blucher on Jan 17, 2018 20:05:08 GMT -5
Hi all. I wrote my own clone version, WARRIOR & WIZARD, a number of years ago. When I heard that Steve Jackson had contacted George Dew, I emailed Steve to ask him what he wanted me to do with mine. Ultimately he asked me to take it down, and I have done so. There was no animosity or anything like that. I fully intend to buy new copies of the original games as they become available. Hey, Chris, Welcome to our boards! I downloaded W&W years ago. I think I lost it one or two hard drive crashes ago. Wish I still had it - I liked it! Yeah, no animosity with Steve in his and George's rap session. He has not asked us to take down LAW, but it strays further from TFT than W&W does. And I'll definitely be buying new copies of TFT, in whatever format they come out. And continue to house-rule it... Bret
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Post by mister frau blucher on Jan 17, 2018 20:08:45 GMT -5
Scott,
An excellent example of real life!
I do prefer our skill system to TFT's Talents in general, but there were still a lot of those I liked. Maybe there will maybe a hybrid system...a lot of the Talents and skills could exist side-by-side.
Bret
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