Shadows in the Dark

[klingor]

Hi,
I've decided to bite the bullet, pay the outrageous postage and have ordered a copy of SITD.
Don't care when it arrives - 2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months whatever, as long as it gets to me before I shuffle off this mortal coil.
Why not offer a pdf version of the game components as well?
I would quite happily pay the full price for the game to get it. You would be saved the cost of the plastic baggies, the paper and the ink. If I wanted a hard copy, I could print it myself at my own expense.
Seems a win/win situation.
Perhaps a poll might be in order -
Are you happy to $12.95 for a pdf version of the game instead of the equivalent hard-copy.
Cheers
Colin
PS I would !!

[Deleted]

i would buy pdf version @ $10. i don't think i would have in the beginning but i would now.

...but i would want the pdf formatted so that i could print the 'book' out on 8.5x11 paper, then fold in half and staple down the middle (booklet format). i think my printer will re-format this way for me but i know not every printer will do this. i don't _legitimately_ have a way of printing 11x17 maps but the version of mspaint in windows7 will automate the printing onto 2 sheets of 8.5x11.

however, if it were my business, i would not do this as there would eventually be a pirated bittorrent of every adventure...but i would make some special, 'behind-closed-doors' exceptions for longtime, loyal customers, if possible...with some faint, individualized watermarks so i'd know 'who ratted me out'

[mister frau blucher]

Guys,

We originally held off on pdf sales because of piracy concerns, but given the prevalency of them, it is silly at this point not to do it. A month or so ago, George and I decided to do pdf sales. Before we do that, we will be editing the adventures, incorporating the errata and adjusting some encounters based on feedback.

Later this fall we should have the first batch of pdf's for sale. Not sure about price - we certainly want to be competitive with other companies and fair to our customers. For those who have already purchased hard copies of adventures, i would like to give a discount of some kind as well.

Colin, thank you very much for your purchase, high shipping and all - we truly appreciate it. I will figure out some way to make it up to you, my friend!

Bret

[klingor]

Guys,
This is not a business, it is a hobby. People like me play the game because we love it.
If someone gets hold of a pirated copy who hasn't played DCG/TFT before. they might become a convert - think of it as free advertising. In the meanwhile, the core devotees will keep on supporting the game, through DCG, as you get out of it what you put into it.
You (DCG) have put the time and effort into this site as a labour of love.
If you've decided that a module is of DCG standard and have it for sale, whether hard copy or pdf, I would buy it!
All the best
Colin

[Deleted]

klingor, it is a hobby and a labor of love but it is also business. pirates will be pirates and supporters will be supporters. sometimes piracy can work as free advertising, sometimes it does not. it really depends on the 'subject area' and 'the community'. i really think piracy is a reactionary market force that seeks to drive down high prices or increase limited supply. just have a look at what is massively pirated and what is not. i think any company that truly wants to 'win the war against piracy' should recognize this and work within the natural market forces, piracy being one of those natural forces.

with that said, i have investigated my 'pirate haunts' and found good evidence that materials or 'subject matter' such as RPG adventures are NOT being massively pirated. core rule books for systems ARE 'healthily' but not massively pirated. pirated adventures seem almost non-existant. therefore, i retract my earlier statement of caution concerning pdf versions of adventures.

(but please note i was not trying to deny you of your pleasures, my friend)

[klingor]

Ewookie,
TFT/ITL is a minority interest.
The market for its products is limited.
I am part of that small market, and I am quite happy to pay whatever the price is, in order that both the writers of the adventures and the website are rewarded for the time, thought and effort they put into creating and distributing the adventures.
If it comes down to a choice between $12.95 + $17.00 delivery in two weeks time for a hard-copy vs $20.00 or $25.00 via pdf delivered immediately - the money going to the writers and distributors- I know which option I'd go for !
I think of it as ShareWare, except I'm paying in advance and am happy to do so.
Cheers
Colin

[Deleted]

Klingor,
I understand your predicament and perspective and that TFT is a minority interest. Piracy definitely has the potential to take it from a minority interest to a larger audience (with or without any benefit to DCG or any other publisher). I do understand your willingness to pay $20 to $25 for a pdf but I think such a high price for a pdf would certainly promote piracy and decrease sales.

[mister frau blucher]

Hey guys,

You have pretty much suumed up what has been going around in our noggins the last few years on this issue. I am pretty sure we are going forward with pdfs this fall. The price would be less than our print copies. I'll start up another thread about this specific issue before we get there, I'd be interested in people's thoughts about pricing and options.

For instance, we were thinking the pdfs would not have a board or counters. This way the print versions have more value. But then this leaves customers like Colin a bit out in the cold, when the shipping makes it sensible to go the pdf route - but then you get shortchanged on the product. But even for a pdf with everything, I would be embarrassed to charge $20, so it will not be that high.

We certainly want to be fair to all of our friends, so we'll talk about this more in depth when we have the first batch of modules re-edited, or close to it.

Bret

[klingor]

Hi, Bret
Got the game in the post this morning. Many thanks to the whole team for that.
First impression - can't wait to play it - plot looks good and tight. Looks a good addition to the DCG range.
Cheers,
Colin

[yezzey]

Hey Dark City Games,
As a way to deter piracy of your material, you could follow the example of the fellas over at Pragmatic Programmers ( pragprog.com ). Not only do they produce PDFs but they also produce epub's and mobi's so that folks can use them on almost any type of e-reader large and small. Also, every ebook they produce is also stamped with the name of the user that purchased it. If it does get out into the wild, it is easy to see where it came from. Does this stop someone from building a fake account and purchasing a couple of books and then releasing them into the wild on purpose, not really but it is a deterrent. Drop the guys at Pragmatic Programmers a line and ask them nicely if they can help DCG setup such a system. They might be willing to help.
Enjoy,
Yezzey

[Deleted]

Sept 25, 2012 18:42:19 GMT -5 yezzey said:

Hey Dark City Games,
As a way to deter piracy of your material, you could follow the example of the fellas over at Pragmatic Programmers ( pragprog.com ). Not only do they produce PDFs but they also produce epub's and mobi's so that folks can use them on almost any type of e-reader large and small. Also, every ebook they produce is also stamped with the name of the user that purchased it. If it does get out into the wild, it is easy to see where it came from. Does this stop someone from building a fake account and purchasing a couple of books and then releasing them into the wild on purpose, not really but it is a deterrent. Drop the guys at Pragmatic Programmers a line and ask them nicely if they can help DCG setup such a system. They might be willing to help.
Enjoy,
Yezzey

hmmm. that all sounds very familiar...

[yezzey]

Really?

Familiar as in "great minds think alike" or "humans are creatures of habit"? :-)

[Deleted]

familiar as in the following...

Aug 23, 2012 21:06:08 GMT -5 @ewookie said:

...with some faint, individualized watermarks so i'd know 'who ratted me out'

...and there is another thread where i tried to take a poll of who had smartphones and tablets. i did not state there, but one of the ideas behind the question was to use epubs.

i'm not sure how 'humans are creatures of habbit' relates to the conversation, so i'd have to go with 'great minds think alike'. (even though i really think great minds think differently )

[yezzey]

"creatures of habit"... I thought you might have seen someplace else where I had made a similar suggestion.

Sure, DCG could be sneaky about it and embed some unique identifier in each ebook as the books are produced but I think a more blatant "Shadows in the Dark (for ewookie)" (or whatever name you purchased the book with) should be right at the top of every page. Along with a nice little request at the beginning of the publication that says "DCG is nice enough to produce ebooks, please return the favor and don't give them away." Or something to that effect. For me, seeing the personalized announcement at the top of each page of the ebooks I have is a nice reminder and source of pride. I think to myself "I am glad I helped support this company because they have great products!"

[Deleted]

Sept 26, 2012 12:05:47 GMT -5 yezzey said:

"creatures of habit"... I thought you might have seen someplace else where I had made a similar suggestion.

Sure, DCG could be sneaky about it and embed some unique identifier in each ebook as the books are produced but I think a more blatant "Shadows in the Dark (for ewookie)" (or whatever name you purchased the book with) should be right at the top of every page. Along with a nice little request at the beginning of the publication that says "DCG is nice enough to produce ebooks, please return the favor and don't give them away." Or something to that effect. For me, seeing the personalized announcement at the top of each page of the ebooks I have is a nice reminder and source of pride. I think to myself "I am glad I helped support this company because they have great products!"

ah. ok. we actually had slightly different things in mind, so we must indeed be great minds LOL. firstly, i want to make sure you understand that i wasn't trying to label you a 'copy cat'. i was trying to underscore the idea.
now, i would not consider it 'sneaky' in a deplorable sense. it is very easy to remove something that is visibly there. not so easy to remove if you don't know it is there or where exactly it is.